Cato
Ant
"Good evening, Inspector Clouseau's residence...?"
Posts: 26
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Post by Cato on Jun 21, 2006 12:18:55 GMT
It's a simple question...
I stand squarely in the camp that says that another PP flick wasn't just unneccessary, but also unwelcome. Panther films without Peter Sellers as Clouseau have been attempted before and, by all accounts, haven't worked or clicked with audiences large or small. So why bother this time? Why bother, too, if Blake Edwards isn't the creative driving force behind the whole thing. The whole wonderfully anarchic, ridiculous comedic feel of the original PP films is a crucial part of their appeal for me - alongside Sellers and the vintage 60s/ 70s settings, of course - and that unique feel is definitely down to Edwards' not at all inconsiderbale talents.
And don't get me started on Steve Martin. I don't have a hell of a lot of time for Martin's work, I'll be honest, and I'm not going to rush out to see the modern PP effort either because of this, I'll be honest again. The thing is, for me, that Sellers is such a comedic genius and such an international institution, who's British like me, that now to have a modern Hollywood PP effort, especially with the broad brushstroke comedic-informed Martin in the lead, is like dancing on Sellers' grave, or that of the name of the orginal PP films. Or at least something like that.
There have been a glut of totally unnecessary and rather cheap (in terms of creativity and overall originality) Hollywood remakes of its classics recently - Poseidon, Rollerball, The Omen et al - and they're remakes of films that are so darn unique in so many ways that it just leaves you feeling sad at how cynical Hollywood seems to be nowadays. And the new PP film falls into that same category for me.
Anyhoo, I can't be the only one to feel this way, others of you out there must, and others of you I'm sure don't - so where do you lot stand then, fellers, and what do you think...?
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Post by Mancini on Jun 21, 2006 14:44:42 GMT
I thought the new film was pretty funny, but total rubbish compared to the Peter Sellers films.
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Post by Clouseau on Jun 21, 2006 14:54:17 GMT
well i'll grant that i'm getting sick of all the remakes coming out of Hollywood lately, and i'll even grant that a new Pink Panther movie wasn't "necessary", but there are a lot of "unnecessary" films that i still deem worthy of my time...
if you get right down to it, i would have been perfectly happy if TPPSA was the last Pink Panther film ever made, because i get the feeling that after that, both Sellers and Edwards were running out of ideas... so to be honest, since they were going to do another Panther film, i'm kinda glad Blake Edwards had nothing to do with it... it's nice to take the basic concept of Clouseau and let some fresh minds work it over for a change! and that's not to say that Levy and Martin are better than Edwards and Sellers, because the original series really was classic, but at the same time, different is not necessarily bad...
finally, i have to disagree with you about the whole "dancing on Sellers' grave" thing... the new film isn't really a "remake" of any of the previous films, so in that sense, they're not really saying, "This is better than such-n-such previous film"... no, if anything, the new film is a "re-imagining" of the whole series, which is to say, "This is what a modernized Clouseau story looks like"... follow me on this... Martin's Clouseau is not the same character as Sellers' Clouseau - he's still a bumbling French detective, but his accent is different, his mannerisms are different, his life doesn't fit the continuity of the previous films - and according to the director's commentary, Levy and Martin were both careful not to mimmick the earlier films too much, out of respect for the original franchise (like how they tried to separate Roger Moore's James Bond from Sean Connery's)... there are a few homages to the earlier films, but it's all done tastefully (much more subtle and infrequent than the Bond homages in Die Another Day), and the style of jokes is varied so there's a bit of something for everyone...
a large part of what makes the new Panther film work, IMO, is that it continues the irreverent tone of the earlier films, but it's simultaneously still reverent to the roots of the franchise...
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Post by Dreyfus on Jun 21, 2006 19:55:36 GMT
I think Martin wanted to make a new generation of Pink panther films for the younger children who ahd never heard of Peter Sellers, David Niven and Herbert Loms old Pink Panther films. And when a lot of them see the originals they will say "they copied Steve Martin" Anyway I dont think that answers your question To be honest like Cato, I dont think another one was necessary but it was quite funny. With TPP06 was probably my second least favourite
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Cato
Ant
"Good evening, Inspector Clouseau's residence...?"
Posts: 26
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Post by Cato on Jun 27, 2006 15:49:14 GMT
That's a good riposte there, Clouseau, just as I expected from you . And perhaps one could look at this point in the light that the new PP film flatters the original series of films, because a reimagining/ reinterpretation of the PP film format requires taking something that's established and understood by Hollywood to be a terrific formula and doing something new with it, I guess. But, for some reason, casting Martin as Clouseau (especially in this comfortably fading, by-the-numbers period of his career) feels pretty cheap to me when I think back to Sellers as Clouseau. Anyhoo, there we go... But that's certainly an interesting point you raised there, Dreyfus. Has Martin actually gone on record as saying he wanted to make the new PP effort to encourage young audiences to discover Sellers' Clouseau in Edwards' PP films? If so, it's rather a lot of effort to go to and rather an ego-fuelled way of doing it (taking on the lead role as the new Clouseau and everything), isn't it...?
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Post by Clouseau on Jun 27, 2006 16:16:40 GMT
Has Martin actually gone on record as saying he wanted to make the new PP effort to encourage young audiences to discover Sellers' Clouseau in Edwards' PP films? If so, it's rather a lot of effort to go to and rather an ego-fuelled way of doing it (taking on the lead role as the new Clouseau and everything), isn't it...? if he has said that, i don't recall coming across it anywhere (not to say it isn't out there)... i do recall an interview, though, where he talked about his respect for Sellers, and how he didn't want to do an imitation of Sellers for the film... he said he only accepted the role when he had figured out a way to play the character that would be mindful of the original, but would be his own unique take on it... some of this is mentioned in an interview i posted up in the Pink Personnel section... also, if you listen to the director's commentary on the DVD, Sean Levy reiterates a lot of that... particularly in the scene when Clouseau first meets Nicole and then Dreyfus, i remember Levy talking about how Martin was so self-conscious and nearly turned down the role until he figured out a way he thought it might work... even if i didn't care much for the final product, i would have to at least respect Martin for the way in which he went into it...
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Post by pinklotusesprit on Jul 12, 2006 20:43:20 GMT
I liked the new Panther movie. And I leave it by that.
A shot in the dark was brilliant. Martin's movie was wonderfully funny and I had a pleasant time. It's also imo, not the worst of the PP-movies BUT I have to watch all of them again since some time has passed since I watched a Panther movie (with exception of the 2006 one)
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Post by ben on Jul 12, 2006 22:49:35 GMT
Steve Martin did a good job reinterpreting Inspector Clouseau, obviousy I did not enjoy the new movie as much as the classics but I appreciate his approach to it. Yeah, it won't be as good as the originals, but compared to some of the other movies out there, it is better for sure
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Cato
Ant
"Good evening, Inspector Clouseau's residence...?"
Posts: 26
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Post by Cato on Jul 13, 2006 22:26:16 GMT
Steve Martin did a good job reinterpreting Inspector Clouseau, obviousy I did not enjoy the new movie as much as the classics but I appreciate his approach to it. Yeah, it won't be as good as the originals, but compared to some of the other movies out there, it is better for sureI'm sure that's very true, ben. But for me, and I know this is a personal and very emotive point as opposed to an insightful one, Sellers' Clouseau is sacred. The idea of someone coming along trying to play the role that Sellers utterly made his own isn't just pointless, as (let's be honest) he's just never ever going to get close in the vast majority of people's minds to the great man's portrayal, but also distasteful. Sure, you may say that screen roles such as James Bond, Sherlock Holmes and even Ebenezer Scrooge have been recast, redone and redefined over the many years of cinema. But what sets the Clouseau role apart from them is that in Sellers' playing of it there was a genuine streak of genius to it - a streak of pure comic genius. I'm sure we'd all agree that that, if you will, streak of comic genius is there to be seen in many of the funniest and craziest moments of his PP films. It's down to this genius Sellers gifted the role that there simply can't be any way any other actor will ever get close to his version. And quite frankly I feel that this comic genius of Sellers' is so rare, special and precious that it should (metaphorically speaking) be regarded as a museum piece, rather like the Pink Panther diamond itself, ho ho! But, sadly, instead we find ourselves years and years after Sellers' and Edwards' PP heyday facing yet another big budget Hollywood version of the thing, and someone else (after Alan Arkin and Roberto Benigni) being ill-advisedly given the chance to play Clouseau. And why? Just because bumbling Hollywood execs and filmmakers lazily take the option of trying to resurrect a golden comedy edpisode from their industry's history rather than create a worthy new conceit. It's a move that saddens me and, to some extent, ticks me off...
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Post by ben on Jul 13, 2006 22:37:17 GMT
Cato I agree with everything you've said. When I made positive comments regarding Steve Martin's performance, in absolutely no way was I comparing his performance to Peter Sellers' Clouseau. I did not explain it properly, what I meant to say was I don't really watch alot of the newer movies coming out, and what I meant was that in comparison to other movies that are coming out today, I enjoyed this. But that's not to say that I will eagerly await the sequel....In fact I probably won't watch this again for an undetermined period of time, just because I have no desire for repeat viewings, unlike the older Pink Panther movies. Hence, I agree 101% about Sellers' Clouseau being sacred. No matter who plays Clouseau and how well their interpretation may be, trust me, there is no Clouseau like Sellers, and as much as I might laugh at Steve Martin or Roger Moore, it doesn't throw me in fits the way Sellers did (and still does).
There is only one Clouseau.
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Cato
Ant
"Good evening, Inspector Clouseau's residence...?"
Posts: 26
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Post by Cato on Jul 13, 2006 22:46:26 GMT
There is only one Clouseau. Oh yeah, dern right! Oh, and by the way, folks, my bashing of Steve Martin over his PP retread isn't necessarily directed against him and his entire career, you understand. Indeed, both Dirty Rotten Scoundrels (with the indefatigable Michael Caine, of course) and Planes, Trains and Automobiles will always hold a fond place in my heart...
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Post by Clouseau on Jul 14, 2006 2:39:04 GMT
well this raises another question, then...
if, instead of what we have now, Steve Martin had done a film about a bumbling French detective who had a different name (not Clouseau), and it had not involved the names of PP-related characters or the Pink Panther Diamond, nor had the title included the word "Pink" or "Panther in it, BUT it was otherwise almost identical to the film we have now, would that have satisfied you? or does just the fact that he's a bumbling Frenchman ruin the whole thing automatically??
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Cato
Ant
"Good evening, Inspector Clouseau's residence...?"
Posts: 26
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Post by Cato on Jul 14, 2006 18:07:56 GMT
Well, no, that wouldn't have satisfied me, because that simply would have been a rip-off... and the filmmakers probably could have been sued by those owning the PP film rights over copyright infringement, I would imagine...
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Post by Clouseau on Jul 14, 2006 18:21:44 GMT
i dunno... if Sony already owns the PP franchise, i'm not sure who would sue them... but that's a side-point to what i was really getting at, though... you're saying that any film featuring a bumbling detective with exaggerated mannerisms/accent is unacceptable, just because Peter Sellers did a good job as one 30 years ago?? i mean, where's the limit??
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Cato
Ant
"Good evening, Inspector Clouseau's residence...?"
Posts: 26
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Post by Cato on Jul 14, 2006 18:54:49 GMT
Well, you're widening the original question there that I answered 'yes' to, which was...
if, instead of what we have now, Steve Martin had done a film about a bumbling French detective who had a different name (not Clouseau), and it had not involved the names of PP-related characters or the Pink Panther Diamond, nor had the title included the word "Pink" or "Panther in it, BUT it was otherwise almost identical to the film we have now, would that have satisfied you? or does just the fact that he's a bumbling Frenchman ruin the whole thing automatically??
But, quite fankly, if you produce a film with a main comic character, who not just has an 'amusingly' exaggerated ethnic accent, but is also bumbling, and (if you like) is also a detective, then, quite frankly, what is the point? Like I said, Sellers did the gig so well way back when, why try to redo the whole thing - whether you call it 'Pink Panther' and/ or 'Clouseau', or not?
It's been done so well before and been redone really poorly before too - it's been done, done, done already - so why go over the same old ground? That ship's sailed - cherish the the originals and move on and do something else...
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